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The future of PocketMine

Comments in 'General Discussion' started by dktapps, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. dktapps
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    dktapps Active Member

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    UPDATE: More PocketMine Team members have joined the movement. The project has moved to https://github.com/pmmp.

    @iamadpond ... you've kept too quiet. Long enough that everybody believes you abandoned the idea. That thought alone has been enough to crush near enough everyone's hopes of anything happening.

    PocketMine is very, very dead. Many new users are noticing this. New users come to us asking why they can't connect to their PocketMine server with 0.15.9, and I'm forced to tell them the horrible truth: PocketMine is dead.

    For those who would dispute the fact, @Intyre was the last person keeping the PocketMine repository up-to-date, even long past the point where barely anybody used it anymore, preferring spoons with more features. Noticed recently that the repository hasn't been updated since the 22nd of June? No update for 0.15.4 or 0.15.9, even though all those would require is a small protocol bump (very minor changes: 0.15.4 changed some Xbox-related stuff, 0.15.9 added new custom skin models for capes).

    How do I define "spoon"? The term originated with the PocketMine Team as a joke way to refer to self-proclaimed "forks" such as Genisys and ClearSky. These aren't forks at all. They are copies. Look at the contribution history, do you see any contributions from the PocketMine team all the way back to 2012? Of course not. The term has since become wildly popular as the primary way to describe such derivatives.

    I joined the PocketMine game late: in January this year in fact, when ImagicalMine was all the rage - "the first third-party build of PocketMine that rocked the world". I never saw PocketMine in its prime, but what I haven't seen I've learned since, through research and accounts of people who have been around here for longer than I have.

    I started developing in iTX Technologies on Genisys in May/June. This was just after IM died, around the time when chaos was kicking off about the 0.15.0 update, which no spoon dev had any idea about (encryption? what? *scratches head*). I honestly believe that if @Intyre hadn't put the hard effort in that he did, along with others at #mcpedevs on Freenode, there would be no PocketMine spoons today. Sure as hell nobody at Genisys had any idea what was going on, or put such hard effort into making it work... or at all. That struck the first sparks off me. I'd only been a Genisys developer for maybe a week or so when this was happening, and I couldn't believe that nobody had the expertise or knowledge to try and make things work. Everyone was just waiting, and praying silently for PocketMine Jesus, a.k.a. @Intyre to come back and save the day.

    After the 0.15 update was merged from PocketMine by one of our "developers" whom I didn't know - sorry, "copy-pasted" - I quickly grew disillusioned with my initial view of Genisys as an amazing but buggy server software that needed a lot of improvement. As I said in another thread, Genisys has been ruined by the many, for want of a better term, "noobs" who have contributed to it in the past. I saw stupid, stupid things, fixed and removed many, many idiocies. Other spoons are no better.
    It also disgusted me how little originality there is. Genisys is the leading spoon currently, with some devs who actually do know how to do things other than copy-paste... but there is not much originality to Genisys (Lots of the "features" Genisys has are copied from poorly-written plugins), and even less so to other spoons. ImagicalMine and ClearSky were and are respectively prime examples of this - they copied/copy most of our developments. (Not to be hypocritical, Genisys devs have copied from other sources before - most notably PocketMine! >:-{)


    25th of July: everything changed.
    Not long past midnight, a certain @iamadpond joined our Mattermost chat at iTXTech. The gist of the story was that he was looking for developers interested in continuing PocketMine itself. (The full conversation can be viewed here.)
    Some may be wondering why I was so positive towards a new PocketMine in the forums. I was completely in favour of such an undertaking because by this point I was getting sick of fixing other people's messes, and I love a challenge. (I was also heading for problems IRL and this gave me something to focus on, but that's private.) I had big plans for Genisys, which were complicated by all the core stripping I was going to have to do (all that horrible code!) and being asked if I would be interested in working on PocketMine itself... I jumped at the opportunity. Forget making an ugly, buggy spoon great: make POCKETMINE great again.

    Like everyone else, I waited... to see what @iamadpond would decide, what he would do. He was in charge of this revolution... but the weeks rolled into months, 0.15.4 and 0.15.9 were released and no protocol updates to PocketMine main repo, @iamadpond silent and keeping his plans from other staff members... and hope died. The forums are now deader than ever. Everyone believes that PocketMine is completely dead.

    When new users come to us asking what else they can do, since PocketMine is dead... I really hate telling people to use Genisys. The rebel in me hated the fact that @iamadpond 's plans were falling into the void. The rebel in me hated sitting around waiting for somebody else to save the day, especially since it looked like it was never going to happen...

    When 0.16 beta started, I knew we couldn't rely on PocketMine to save the day anymore. I've been informed that the main PocketMine-MP repository will not receive any further updates (by a staff member whose name I won't disclose unless permitted to). I threw myself into the task of getting 0.16 to work on Genisys. I quickly discovered that due to past messes (AGAIN) performing the required protocol updates was going to break lots of things.

    It was about this point that I decided I'd had enough of Genisys, and founded Phoenix. I decided that if plans really were falling into the void, I was going to change that.

    Phoenix is a new fork of PocketMine-MP. It's my attempt to make amends for the huge damage done to PocketMine - both the community and PocketMine-MP's user base - by spoons. None of this damage was done by me, but a large part of the damage has been done by the organization I am part of.

    Phoenix aims to be the continuation of PocketMine-MP. Maximum quality standards will be enforced on Phoenix, to maintain and improve on PocketMine's (relatively) clean codebase. It's backed by a couple of ex-PocketMine Team members who either wish to remain incognito, or wish to see PocketMine alive again but do not want to contribute to it any more.

    For those who argue that I'd do more damage to the community with another fork, I answer: what community? These forums are the deadest they have ever been. Once upon a time, there was 1,879 users on these forums all at once. Now there are rarely five.
    I'd also like to emphasise the fact that I am an owner of the organization responsible for Genisys and also a key contributor to ClearSky, the last two prominent spoons of the project. Anyone who knows of the Genisys/ClearSky dispute a couple of months ago will know that I was the primary person who helped to solve that. Both teams are in favour of Phoenix, because although the truth hurts, they don't blind themselves to it. Someday Phoenix will supersede both of them and they will die.

    Also... maybe, maybe... someday, if anybody does return to the ashes of PocketMine... Phoenix will be able to be merged back into PocketMine.

    EDIT: Since this post was written, the project has gained further support from other PocketMine members. We're now located at https://github.com/pmmp

    Interesting links:
    https://forums.pocketmine.net/threads/so-is-pocketmine-dead-now.18305/#post-171650
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  2. Primus
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    Primus Notable Member

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    If @PEMapModder was here, he would definitely post this
    [​IMG]
    I'm not hater I'm just looking skeptical to all this
  3. dktapps
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    dktapps Active Member

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    Somebody has to play devil's advocate. By all means, be my guest.
  4. dktapps
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    dktapps Active Member

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    This is no spur-of-the-moment thing. I've been planning this ever since the 25th of July. Be sceptical if you will. Actions speak louder than words.
  5. Nawaf_Craft1b
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    Nawaf_Craft1b Active Member Plugin Developer

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    Please shortened Thread i donot know what do you want ?
    CaptainKenji17 likes this.
  6. Vaivez66
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    Vaivez66 Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    Neither do I know what you mean...
  7. Tim // robske Büba
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    Tim // robske Büba Notable Member

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    @dktapps Keep the work up, if you think i can help you with anything, just ping me somewhere.

    Member of ClearSkyTeam, appreciating Phoenix.
  8. Blabla
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    Blabla Active Member

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    I'm wanting to support you in any way I can :) Thank you so much for trying to save PM.
  9. Blabla
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    Blabla Active Member

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    I heard you were talking about a new logo? Tell me if you need help and I'll go ahead and make a cool one :)
  10. Nawaf_Craft1b
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    Nawaf_Craft1b Active Member Plugin Developer

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    I Canot to read all this line
  11. HimbeersaftLP
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    HimbeersaftLP Active Member

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    Wow, that's touching and impressive, I nearly had to cry (jk). Where's the repo? So I can give it a star...
  12. dktapps
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    dktapps Active Member

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    applqpak, Blabla and HimbeersaftLP like this.
  13. HimbeersaftLP
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    HimbeersaftLP Active Member

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  14. jasonwynn10
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    jasonwynn10 Active Member

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    What is the difference between this and IM or genesis? The outcome will be the same. You are deporting the members of the PM community to other "spoons" of the project. If you or anyone else wants to truly help, then we need to somehow get admin access to the PocketMine-MP github repository. I personally plan on talking to @Intyre and/or @shoghicp to see if I can gain that access. Then the system of how PRs and Issues are submitted needs reenforces along with how there is only about 4 people with access to the repo. If you want a change in the PM community, don't be a hypocrite; Dedicate your time to something that WILL make a change for the better.
    Primus, HimbeersaftLP and MikkiMCPE like this.
  15. dktapps
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    dktapps Active Member

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    @jasonwynn10 Open your eyes, take the blindfold of delusion away, and rejoin the real world. Maybe then people might take you seriously.

    Maybe go and read some other threads, y'know... get your facts right?
  16. remote_vase
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    remote_vase Active Member

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    Me- Tried to get ImagicalMine back to life using Inactive-to-Reactive. I completely failed, and it is practically dead now. Genysis- Too slow, and many plugins do not work with it. ClearSky- Decent, but starting to become inactive in main branch. I most certainly hope that this is nice (I think it will be). Do not be suprised if you see multiple pr's from me (@remotevase on github)... I definitely would love to help! **Stars repository**
    archie426, HimbeersaftLP and Blabla like this.
  17. Tim // robske Büba
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    Tim // robske Büba Notable Member

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    Erm this is a fork. That means it is freshly forked from pocketmine. And the difference between IM and this is, that the one who started IM wasn't a good coder so he let even worser coders do the work. Dktapps is a good coder and he won't let me in because i code too bad :p. That's somewhat promising for you. Sad for me.
  18. dktapps
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    dktapps Active Member

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  19. Blabla
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    Blabla Active Member

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    I've made a pretty nice picture logo, any way I can send it to you? :p
    archie426 and HimbeersaftLP like this.
  20. jasonwynn10
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    jasonwynn10 Active Member

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    If your signature is true, then you should be able to just change the PM repo directly. Why don't you even try at least to change the original?
    HimbeersaftLP likes this.

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