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Question General (technical) newcomer questions (and hopefull answers)

Comments in 'General Discussion' started by gilbert_at, Jul 13, 2014.

  1. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    So, I arrived at online hosting of MCPE at the end of 0.8.1/1.3.smthg, and had a nice world with a great hoster. As 0.9.0 arrived I planned to stay in my old world and app and play around with the new versions until they're stable, but unfortunately Android forceautoupdated one of my friends app, and there's no return (damn you, Google Play!). And here I am, in the shrouded dawn of alphas and devs and weirdness, forced to deal with what there is, and what not.

    I have questions, and maybe they're the same as others may have.
    • World generation. When I enter a new world name and seed in the configuration file, where is the world generated? I guess on the app (iOS, currently 0.9.0). It takes by time of writing this 15 mins to generate 568kb for r.0.0.mca, app is running (barely, keeping the tablet alive by touching the world building screen). And this is the result: http://i.imgur.com/MptTNL0.jpg . This is definitely NOT the seed I used (I used a numerical value). And the region folder has two files, the r.0.0 with 636kb and a r.6.5 with 12kb. What's going on?
    • World structure. Why is the PocketMine world file structure different than my apps structure?
    • World transferring. Why can't I just upload my tablets world online or vice versa?
    • Objects and things. Do I understand it right that everything, every object needs its own php script or something to work?
    • Why is it so hard to spawn mobs?
    • General MCPE gameplay culture: Is it all about pvp? I want to have a peaceful world for team building and farming without need for any plugins, and feel fringed out (though crops worked in 0.8.1/1.3, thank you!!!).
    • Mojangs Realms. Is it competition? I have donated recently to MP, but would pay Mojang just as happily.
    Currently I have updated the server to PocketMine-MP version Alpha_1.4dev "絶好(Zekkou)ケーキ(Cake)" (API 1.1.0)
    Andrey Nazarchuk likes this.
  2. iamadpond
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    iamadpond Banned

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    Mojang Realms is basically like EA forcing you to buy an online pass, it's really just useless unless you're going pure vanilla which most won't, and without plugin support. During the time you could access the beta on the main menu, shoghicp used a client certificate to redirect you to his setup. Homebrew but it worked flawlessly, as mojang caught on they removed it. Forcing the server directory (Can you believe I forgot the name of it..) to close but with some compromise, you could join via direct IP. Which would suggest they were tolerant, not competition at that time. Not to say they will be, but in my opinion they won't be very popular as people then would discover pocketmine for "Free minecraft servers" for example.
    Andrey Nazarchuk, Dutok and Darunia18 like this.
  3. Darunia18
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    Darunia18 Staff Member Sectional Moderator

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    1. PocketMine 1.4's world generation is not complete and is different from MCPE's. Moreso, it is very buggy, so you may encounter missing chunks, although I never heard of that happening before. And yes, logging into the server is very slow. Anywas, the world is generated from the server, not the app.
    2. I'm not sure why it's different, but it is. PocketMine uses the Anvil format (what Minecraft PC uses) instead of MCPE's Level-DB format (which was announced and released months after @shoghicp already gave PocketMine the Anvil format support).
    3. They're working on allowing you to transfer your MCPE worlds to PocketMine worlds, but it's not quite finished yet. But be warned that, when it's completed, only the already-loaded chunks would be transferred, and any chunks that weren't loaded on the map in the client will be generated by PocketMine instead.
    4. Every single thing needs to be coded in. Player movement, entity AIs and movement, what happens when a world loads, everything with health when a player is hit (and with what item, who hit the player, etc). Everything is done from the server, so it takes a lot to get it all working,
    5. It's not hard to spawn in the mobs, but the problem lies with creating the mob AI (how it acts, moves, etc). It's much more difficult than you'd first think.
    6. You can turn PvP off in the server.properties file. I personally like to play on non-PvP servers (PC and MCPE).
    7. Pocket Edition Realms is currently not online. Anyways, while it has more support from Mojang than PocketMine, PocketMine offers plugins, a more customized server, and you can actually run the server from your own device and be in control of everything, instead of relying solely on Mojang's Realm service. Also, if you run it from your own device, it's free!
  4. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    @iamadpond

    Well, the app has everything we would need, no need for anything else in online multiplayer in our opinion (only RL friends on the server....). But Realms are closed anyway, so we're going with what there is, and will be. Yeah, I like company/money driven development and support, and some like Mojang can afford to have just vanilla, because it's bugless and perfect (no I'm not on PC btw). But I also like and try to participate in cummunity driven projects, just have to find directions first.
  5. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    @Darunia18

    1) thanks for the eye opener! I wonder why there's a (buggy) world generator on server side, since it won't be needed without a client anyway, right? Not to critic anyone, surely there are reasons I can't even imagine.

    2) I want to believe the format change was an unfortunate and unintended accident, again for reasons way out there.

    3) Oh, I'd be happy to transfer the non-infinite world my group have agreed upon complete with all chunks unto the server, no need for server created (and "unorganic") chunks and pieces. We're patient.

    4,5) I petition for spawning a mob just standing motionless at the spot, so all ingredients for recipies are available. I had to cheat a lot of stuff into players inventories in 1.3 for various products. Forget my petition, I'm fine ;-)

    6) Yep, adapted the server properties to our needs already, thx!

    7) see my reply to iamadpond
  6. iamadpond
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    iamadpond Banned

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    Bugless and perfect. That's because shoghicp pushes builds quickly and in beta form, while mojang take ages to reach stable. So people have the choice to wait like everyone else but they choose to just have it while it's hot and complain that it's hot.
    Tuff and tnpxxsheepdog like this.
  7. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    So does that mean the app is nothing but a renderer? That changes my understanding (and appreciation) of PM quite a bit...!
  8. iamadpond
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    iamadpond Banned

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    It's all written in PHP if that means anything to you, a server side scripting language. A pre-processing language.
  9. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    Yes I did php, not very elegantly but rather dirty and it mostly "kinda" worked for me ;-) When I have a few days time off I'll go into the API docs and try to warm it all up.
    And you confirmed that the app is just the renderer of what is happening on the server?
  10. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    Bold statement for a webhoster guy ;-)
  11. shoghicp
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    shoghicp Staff Member PocketMine Team

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    I see most of the questions have been answered, but I'll explain a bit more some of them.

    1. The generator PocketMine-MP has is a temporal one while we port the PC generator. This takes times and I'm focusing on getting everything else ready.
    2. PocketMine-MP will support both Anvil and LevelDB (0.9 world format) in the stable release. It only supports Anvil now, since it's a documented format and LevelDB was released way to late to be included sooner.
    3. ^ see two
    4. Everything your client sees is sent by PocketMine-MP, be it physics, world, or entities. If you do something, the server handles it and can refuse if it wants, then sends the results to other players. So yeah, everything needs something to handle it.
    5. ^, I prefer not having them than having them but static. They will be in the stable release :)

    6. As Darunia18 said, Realms are just vanilla servers. If you want to do extra things, add custom gameplay, or block things, you need a PocketMine-MP server. It can also be updated faster, and it's more resistant against attacks.
  12. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    Thanks @shoghicp . You are actually building a whole complete game, instead of a server backend. Being the gullible romantic and idealistic type I assumed the server just stores everything for the clients to grab, manipulate, send the result and render.
    So instead the server sends "render this player at this position with that orientation and this direction the head is looking with that thing in his hands" every moment. And even the inventory is managed online, not local, and the app actually decides nothing at all (block brocken, hit points taken, leaves dissappearing etc.)? I'm impressed. Guys, take all the time it needs! Time for another donation..
    Andrey Nazarchuk and Darunia18 like this.
  13. iamadpond
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    iamadpond Banned

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    It also designed to take load off clients since most work with limited hardware.
    Darunia18 likes this.
  14. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    I wouldn't have thought clients had to do (much) more than they're built for originally. Btw, I guess it's a decision made by Mojang for their app (0.6?) a long time ago, right? You're not hacking the app, you're just using the interface provided, right?
  15. iamadpond
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    iamadpond Banned

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    Older clients have trouble rendering so it's taken the load from spontaneously rendering to be told what to render, to cut down on latency and hardware issues. Eg, to render single player you have to know what to render and then spontaneously render what you've (on the client) created. Noting that all this takes resources and on older devices, most of their resources. But if you were just told solely what to render and have the server solely render it for you, eg create a map for your clients to fill a wireframe it you will, you'd have more all around success since all they have to do is fill the frame.
  16. gilbert_at
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    gilbert_at New Member

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    World generation follow-up question:

    So, if I let somebody with MCPC generate a world for me in the Anvil format (and to upload into my server), what version should that PC edition be for the world to be compatible with MCPE? I have seen and even moreso heard of blocks that I can't imagine having in the 0.9 MCPE, so I guess it must be an old PC world generator, right? If anyone has the numbers, thank you!

    Just checking options and alternatives, since @shoghicp said the 1.4 stable world generator is low priority. And let me say that I am very happy with the current beta, it's stable and I actually could stay online and in there for a while, wow! I have programmed enough to appreciate that "Hello world" moment today :)
    Andrey Nazarchuk likes this.
  17. Darunia18
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    Darunia18 Staff Member Sectional Moderator

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    If it's just a generated map and nothing built, any version since somewhere mid-beta releases should work (or whenever they moved to the Anvil format). So if you wanted a 1.7 world, you can have a friend generate some of that :)

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