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Efficently ban?!?

Comments in 'Plugin Development' started by JackboyPlay, May 4, 2016.

  1. JackboyPlay
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    JackboyPlay Active Member

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    How can I ban players effective?
    They can change easy the ClientID the Name and the IP address
    Give it an another thing that I can ban from a player {Skin is useless to ban}
    HotFireyDeath likes this.
  2. JackboyPlay
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    JackboyPlay Active Member

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    Is it possible to get the Mac-address?
  3. applqpak
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    applqpak Active Member Plugin Developer

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    No.
  4. CrazedMiner
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    CrazedMiner Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    Technically there is no 'effective' way to ban users. The closest thing you can get to effective is to track all ip's a certain username has joined from and ban them along with the username.
  5. JackboyPlay
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    JackboyPlay Active Member

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    They are changed < 1 Minute
  6. SOFe
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    SOFe Banned

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    It is an infringement to human rights if you have a way to constantly identify the same device.
    Look at China. It is forcing every Internet user to register with their real name to conveniently track who posted messages, which:
    • Infringes privacy
      • Internet is a place where everyone can have a totally new identity.
      • One can always turn over a new leaf on the Internet easily.
      • If you don't have anonymity, everyone knows who you are (at least, the same person on the Internet, even if not connected to your real-life identity).
    • Infringes freedom of speech
      • Say, someone spoke something politically sensitive on your server. You banned him.
      • Now he can no longer say that on your server. His freedom of speech is damaged.
    Of course the fact isn't as simple as this, but this is an easy way to understand why the international society does not like it being possible to track who the player is.
    Therefore, VPN is a great invention to protect human rights.

    Reference: https://www.surfeasy.com/blog/un-encryption-and-anonymity-basic-human-rights/
    MikkiMCPE and applqpak like this.
  7. basprohop
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    basprohop Active Member Plugin Developer

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    That can be spoofed aswell :)
  8. Yeelze
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    Yeelze New Member

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    There isn't more ways to ban... only that you said.
  9. Extreme_Heat
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    Extreme_Heat Active Member

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    Or wait for 0.15 and proper client side authentication.
  10. EschieEsh
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    EschieEsh Active Member

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    Client ID + Subnet Ban + Normal Ban combined with VPNGuard is the best way in MCPE (for now). I am just curious. Why do you want to ban a player so badly? He/she can't do anything unless he/she has permissions or is op. Spamming on your server can be prevented with plugins. The mods too.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  11. SOFe
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    SOFe Banned

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    Subnet ban = You use the same network provider as the other guy who got banned, so you are banned too. Write a letter of complaint and ask your network provider to ban that other guy from using their services. Or offer you a new subnet every day, while there are only 65536 subnets in the whole world. I am a racist. If you live in the same city as the other hacker, you are a hacker too. If you hate this mechanism, get a new network provider every day.
    Client ID = I bet you are smart enough to download mods for cheating but not smart enough to find out that "Client ID" exists (actually, does it still exist in 0.15?)
    Normal ban (name) = I bet you are stupid enough not to change your username
    VPNGuard = I hate you. I don't like VPNs. I don't want you to hide the country you come from. I force you to reveal your location through your real IP address. I am against Internet privacy. I don't care if your government banned all servers in my subnet. OR You love my server that you conducted a research to find out a VPN provider that isn't identified by VPNGuard's web API. I will forgive you. Come in, since you have found a VPN that isn't listed in VPNGuard's web API, you are just too clever, or you love my server so much. I appreciate your hard work. Come in, you are pardoned.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
    applqpak likes this.
  12. EschieEsh
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    EschieEsh Active Member

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    xD. Yep 65536 subnets total.

    0-255.0-255.x.x because 256*256 = 65536. Maths

    Whatever. I am just curious why does he want a player banned that badly.
  13. EschieEsh
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    EschieEsh Active Member

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    4,294,967,296 IP adresses in total and the world population is 7.4 billion. I have been placed in 100.64.x.x ._. The IPs are obviously not enough. ;p that is why there is ipv6.
  14. SOFe
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    SOFe Banned

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4_address_exhaustion

    The simple fact is that there is not really much to do about the people who has dynamic IP, or even VPNs. The best way is to get more staff members to hunt them down. The deterrent effect of banning is only for those who don't know how to change your IP. Further attempts shall be meaningless.

    Also, even with external authentication in 0.15 (probably), this still doesn't mean that the problem can be solved. In Minecraft PC edition, you have to pay to get a new account. I doubt if this is true in Pocket Edition.
    applqpak likes this.
  15. basprohop
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    basprohop Active Member Plugin Developer

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    Why work harder when you can work smarter?
    Why should I (as a server owner) protect someone elses ass who hypothetically is organizing a riot from my server just so his "freedom of speech isn't damaged" it would be a quick and swift ban from me if I catch any wiff of any politically sensitive topics floating around. Because I don't want to be held reliable

    Generally you wouldn't block whole subnet you would block within a 5 IP range. And wouldn't it be soo coincidental that someone within 5 IP ranges of you, has the same ISP, also plays MCPE and ontop of that plays on the same server, that the range is blocked on? IMO Subnet banning is a great tool if used correctly.

    Mostly people that get banned are not for "mods" they get banned for griefing/not following the server rules. So yah using client ID banning is fine, and adds another hurdle for someone trying join your server again.

    How is this against internet privacy? If you get banned from a server don't go out of your way and use a VPN in the first place to try and join back. Banning means = YOU ARE UNWANTED THERE

    wtf is this?

    Yah more like here let me bend over and cry while you drill me in the ass, I think your forgetting there are people in this world who just want to watch it burn. And no one would spend that much time finding an unidentified VPN for a positive purpose,.. only to harass the server admins that banned them the first place.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  16. Jazzwhistle
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    Jazzwhistle Notable Member

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    All very convincing arguments for the absolute right to complete anonymity online from @SOFe on the surface... but they ignore the fact that we can discuss these issues here in a civilized manner because there are rules here, because these forums belong to someone who has every right to exclude anyone he doesn't want posting. That includes bans that limit some other people's "freedom of speech", and staff doing their best to identify and keep out repeat offenders by tracking IP addresses and any other pattern of behaviour that can help.

    My bank has every right to know and ensure that it is indeed one of my devices that is being used to connect to my online bank account, thankfully, and that is not an infringement of anyone's human rights. Of course I'd like to be able to ban someone from the servers I pay good money for, in the same way a bar owner has every right to forbid you to enter a bar if you behaved badly... the problem is simply that MCPE doesn't yet have central auth, or a system that would for example, validate a user against his/her purchase of the app. Sorry, but I don't feel bad if that excludes people using pirated software.

    Personally I'd rather have gone with a system that somehow uses Google Authenticator or a similar setup, but it would it would just make it that much harder for kids to figure out to join, which (judging from how many try to join as "Steve") is not a good idea. So for now we have to be clever and think laterally... what was he saying earlier about skins? I like it.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
    applqpak likes this.
  17. SOFe
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    SOFe Banned

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    I'm not saying that you have the responsibility to protect freedom and privacy (although it should be a responsibility for every global citizen). I am saying that in order to protect these freedoms and rights, the Internet is designed to make it impossible to permanently ban a particular real person.
    applqpak likes this.
  18. SOFe
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    SOFe Banned

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    Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that people can still find an unidentified VPN for ban evasion.
    applqpak likes this.
  19. SOFe
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    SOFe Banned

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    Yep. You are correct. My point is, you have the right to remain anonymous, while you also have the ability to force people to be real-person-linked when it is necessary (for example, bank accounts). But for servers, it is only a game, no serious thing; why must it be connected to real life?
    applqpak likes this.
  20. Jazzwhistle
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    Jazzwhistle Notable Member

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    Sorry, but that is just not true either! From Wikipedia:

    I think Silk Road, lulzsec and so on have demonstrated that nobody is anonymous online - you can only make it very difficult to be traced.

    Yes, it's "only a game", but games have a very real impact on kids lives. I need to keep bullies out so that young girls don't get called "whores" repeatedly, for example, and spend days crying, and maybe leave the server (and a community of friends) just so they don't ever see that person again. Only a game though...

    I know it's somewhat off topic, but I asked my players to write something for our app/website about MCPE servers, and I'd like to share with you the text written by a young girl who has been coming to my servers for over a year now. I think it shows how important a community of online friends (and a safe, kid-friendly environment) can be to many young people:

    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
    applqpak likes this.

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