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Donate or Paid plugin section

Comments in 'Forum Discussion' started by Primus, Aug 9, 2015.

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Should PocketMine team add Donate button for developers or Paid plugin section?

Poll closed Aug 16, 2015.
  1. Paid plugin section.

    8.0%
  2. Donate button

    72.0%
  3. Both

    8.0%
  4. I dont care

    12.0%
  1. Thunder33345
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    Thunder33345 Notable Member

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    going to be honest my concern is you can UN-PHAR
    so leaker gonna be leaking
    and there no way of stopping that pm can only read anything that can be decoded like plugin file/.phar
  2. Legoboy0215
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    Legoboy0215 Notable Member

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    Yeah. Thats why we love open-source.
    hoyinm14mc and PEMapModder like this.
  3. Thunder33345
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    Thunder33345 Notable Member

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    and i like it when it is able to be leaked
  4. basprohop
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    basprohop Active Member Plugin Developer

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    uhh you can also decompile Java..
    iksaku likes this.
  5. iksaku
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    iksaku Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    "Donations" are the best solution
    hoyinm14mc, jojoe77777 and LDX like this.
  6. Thunder33345
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    Thunder33345 Notable Member

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    yes that why i like it
    just decompile and leak
  7. basprohop
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    basprohop Active Member Plugin Developer

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    o.o why would you want to leak? :(
  8. PEMapModder
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    PEMapModder Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    Because we are open source terrorists. :D
  9. Thunder33345
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    Thunder33345 Notable Member

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    in someway i guess
    or call it pirate
    but you cant really do much with phar
  10. TigerHix
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    TigerHix Active Member

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    +1 for paid plugins.

    Just refer to PC plugins on BukkitDev (free) and Spigot Resources (free and paid). The fact is, both server owners and plugin developers are benefited. Server owners get quality plugins for a low price; plugin developers gain the reward for their hard work.

    For those developers who love open-source, I certainly understand the open-source spirit, but not everyone has the same value. Please give others the chance to do what they want to.

    For people worrying that scammers may sell low-quality or not working plugins, no need to worry, really. Think of the market in reality, the bad products will be quickly knocked out by the market itself.

    For those worrying about the abuse use of paid plugins (distribution without author's permission, decompilation), free plugins could also be decompiled by someone, changing the name and author, and be put on their server without credit to the actual author.

    Actually ignore what I have just typed, think about App Store. Apple was facing much more problems than free and paid, scamming products or copyright issue, but that doesn't stop them from developing App Store and making it a huge success. The problems we are facing were mostly faced by Spigot team as well, but they finally made the decision and created the Premium Resources section, which is proven a correct decision later on. Just think about the possibilities the mode can bring us, and compare it to the relatively not-even-worth-mentioning issues, and you would have the answer.

    Don't tell me any BS about donation. My PC plugins have received 50000+ downloads, and no one has ever donated to me.
  11. basprohop
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    basprohop Active Member Plugin Developer

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    No to mention @Humerus does a great job at Reviewing plugins.
  12. Thunder33345
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    Thunder33345 Notable Member

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    agreed you have points
    but most plugin just get put on server without credited
  13. PEMapModder
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    PEMapModder Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    For those who wanted to compare PC with this, please remember that PocketMine community is different from other communities. Every community is unique. I'm not going to elaborate on it since it will probably make my post much longer.

    The point is, I don't understand why you want to sell them if you are not interested in earning profit from making plugins. If you just want motivation, donate is enough. If you force people to pay, that means you are trying to earn profit from plugins. It isn't a thoughtcrime or what, but you gotta admit it before you say that you agree with selling plugins, i.e. forcing the users to pay.
    amiremad, Oneeb, fycarman and 6 others like this.
  14. TigerHix
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    Of course every community is unique, in fact every object is unique if we would walk to talk in generalities; but objects have similarities, and the similarities are extremely clear between PocketMine community and Bukkit/Spigot community. The both are communities for a Minecraft server client, PocketMine-MP and Bukkit/Spigot share a similar API and internal structure, both of them are open-source under GNU (though it isn't anymore for Bukkit/Spigot after DMCA incident), both of them are facing similar user group: "basic" users that just want to have a server that they and their friends can play on, and "advanced" users that have the ability of programming and want to make their gamemode public. We cannot simply ignore the previous experience of other communities just because they target PC while we target PE, especially in fact the both communities are extremely similar, from the essence to the ecosystem.

    For your second argument, let's be honest; when you have typed the sentence "If you just want motivation, donate is enough", you have already agreed that money is the motivation for most of the plugin developers. How is that wrong to have a market, that both sellers and buyers are benefited? Secondly, no one forces you to pay; if you need that plugin and you see that the reviews are mostly positive, you pay for it, you get the plugin, gain the access to all future versions, for the plugin author to get motivated and enlightened. Then, they would have to update their plugins to a better, faster one to attract more buyers, as otherwise their plugins would became less competitive than other plugins in the store. If the plugin itself is ridiculous such as selling a message broadcasting plugin for $9.99, I am sure no one will be ever "forced" to pay.

    if someone wants to sell a plugin, of course they want to profit from it! But, how is that considered wrong or immoral? As a server owner, I can purchase plugins I want; as a plugin developer, I would absolutely get more motivation than a donating button on the plugin page that literally no one cares. I love open-source, and I have starred many of your Github repositories, and I do not doubt your effort on making the community better. But you must also admit that, not everyone loves open source. For example, how many "Survival Games plugin help (I promise I will release source after completion)" threads have you seen, and how many Survival Games plugins are available in the resources section? Zero. Why? They don't want to release their plugin for free, so they keep it on their servers. The fact is cruel, and sadly you cannot change it.
    hoyinm14mc and Thunder33345 like this.
  15. PEMapModder
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    PEMapModder Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    Meanwhile, people who can't pay cannot even have a chance to look at the plugins, and this probably isn't what you want to see. And don't discriminate them, because I am one of them.
    If your plugin's quality is good enough, donations would flow in like what happened to PocketMine. I know this is not logical, but while PocketMine is open source, my personal values tell me that it is immoral to sell things upon something that was distributed like PocketMine.
  16. TigerHix
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    TigerHix Active Member

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    In fact, nope; if your logic stands, then we shouldn't have App Store or Google Play as people "cannot even have a chance to look at" the paid applications. If your "look at" means using the plugin, yeah, you can't do that. But you can easily deduce the plugin quality, from viewing the plugin description, the author's previous resources, and the reviews. Just take a look at this page:

    https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/featherboard.2691/

    The author provides screenshots, detailed description and explanations for configurations. The author also provides a test server if you want to "look at" the plugin yourself. Some plugins even provide free trial versions that you could download and run. How is that not enough, and how is that forcing you to pay? If you don't like it, simply close the page. How is that discriminating you?

    Remember, you can still keep your plugins free if we make PocketMine resources a free/paid mixed section, and your plugins would be even more popular than the paid ones because your plugins are free. And even better, you now have the ability of adding a price tag to your plugin. This is not a discrimination at all, instead, this shows the respect to plugin authors for their proprietary rights on their own work, and it also shows the respect to people to buy whatever they want in the market for a fair price.

    If you are wondering about license, as plugins do not directly use code from PocketMine - they can be seen as "upgrades" towards the original software. Therefore, it is not immoral at all. Sure, money is the root of all evils, but as you have stated that you respect freedom in your signature, you have to realize that most of the people like it, and they have the rights to gain it from selling their work.

    For donation part, yes, projects like PocketMine and Spigot can definitely get donations. But, how many? I know nothing of PocketMine, but as far as I know about Spigot, their monthly donations are just enough for hosting the forums. If you make your plugin to become popular like EssentialsPE, great. How about the small plugins then? Striving for donations in the shadows?

    I mean, Why would you have to force plugin authors to strive for donations in a community that 90% of the members are under age of 16, when there is another, better way to go? I have been radical around this topic, because I am so sure that donations are not enough for everyone. Take a look at my BukkitDev plugin page: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/vampirez/ 22097 downloads, 418 comments. I consider it as quite popular and have an above-average quality (or else I wouldn't received much downloads, I guess). So far, I have received zero donations from the plugin, only thousands of people adding me on Skype every day for telling me to add new features, VIP-exclusive shop, etc. Donation will not work if the target users are not mature enough to realize that they have to respect others and others' work.
  17. aliuly
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    aliuly Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    Personally I don't care either way.

    In principle anybody can create a "plugin store". Take @MCG76 for example. What I don't see is anyone willing to set up such system.

    Once one is available I am sure there will be developers wanting to post things there. The real question is will there be enough critical mass for it to be successful.

    I do think it would make for an interesting programming challenge.
    hoyinm14mc, iJoshuaHD, Falk and 3 others like this.
  18. TigerHix
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    TigerHix Active Member

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    The system is easy to implement (through installing/configuring a XenForo plugin); it's just a decision to make or not to make. I agree with the critical mass theory though, perhaps PocketMine is not extensive and powerful enough yet, hence the diversity in plugins may not be satisfying.
    hoyinm14mc, iksaku and PEMapModder like this.
  19. iksaku
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    iksaku Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    I want to thank @TigerHix for such amazing arguments...
    It's more than clear that "good" plugins can get "Donations" working...
    So now it's time to let the people who really "matter on this decision" say something...
    PING:
    - @Intyre
    - @Humerus
    - @shoghicp
  20. aliuly
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    aliuly Notable Member Plugin Developer

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    That's if the Plugin store is hosted in these forums. This store could be hosted outside the forums (just like @MCG76 does). This only needs just one person willing to do this.
    What would make it more compelling if it integrates with a PocketMine plugin so users could simply install plugins directly from the server command line.

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