Advertisement
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Does the Eula apply to pocketmine?

Comments in 'General Discussion' started by Legomite, May 7, 2015.

  1. TheDeibo
    Offline

    TheDeibo Notable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    693
    Minecraft User:
    TheDeibo
    Please read the thread. Look, here is a reply made earlier....
    Also, do your self a solid, and do some research! Here is a link (also) made earlier!!! https://github.com/search?q=org:PocketMine EULA

    that link searches the PocketMine organisation on github, for the keyword "EULA"
    To date, nothing comes up.
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
    applqpak and HotFireyDeath like this.
  2. Jazzwhistle
    Offline

    Jazzwhistle Notable Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Posts:
    364
    Minecraft User:
    Awzaw
    Thanks for that, but I'm not a child :)

    To be more precise I'm asking for clarification of what shoghicp means by this :

    "You are bound to what you offer to MCPE clients. PocketMine itself is not affected by the EULA, but you can't sell non-approved things to the client as that one is bound."

    What exactly would be "non-approved things"?
    applqpak likes this.
  3. TheDeibo
    Offline

    TheDeibo Notable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    693
    Minecraft User:
    TheDeibo
    PocketMine does not have EULA.

    Since there is no contract, there is no EULA.
    applqpak likes this.
  4. Jazzwhistle
    Offline

    Jazzwhistle Notable Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Posts:
    364
    Minecraft User:
    Awzaw
    So shoghicp is incorrect, we aren't bound by anything, and nothing is "non-approved"?
  5. TheDeibo
    Offline

    TheDeibo Notable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    693
    Minecraft User:
    TheDeibo
    Quite the opposite. How on earth did you manage to misunderstand???

    "PocketMine does not have EULA." == "PocketMine does not have EULA."
  6. Jazzwhistle
    Offline

    Jazzwhistle Notable Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Posts:
    364
    Minecraft User:
    Awzaw
    You keep repeating that... I'll assume that English isn't your first language:

    Shoghicp clearly says "you can't sell non-approved things to the client as that one is bound".

    "You can't" does not mean "it's impossible..." (ie nothing is non-approved) in shoghicp's phrase, otherwise he wouldn't have continued with "because that one is bound", meaning that the MCPE client IS bound by the EULA. I was probably writing EULA's before you were born, so please don't patronise me.
  7. Darunia18
    Offline

    Darunia18 Staff Member Sectional Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Posts:
    754
    Plugins:
    2
    Minecraft User:
    Darunia18
    Well even though Shoghi hasn't added much to PocketMine for awhile, PocketMine still has never used any MCPE code, which protects it from being shut down like Bukkit was. Now as for the EULA issue, that's pretty complicated. I'm no legal expert so I'm not exactly sure how it all works, but I believe since PocketMine does not use any PE code, it is free from the restrictions of the EULA. However, Mojang still claims that because servers use the protocol and allows Minecraft clients to join that it is still under the EULA rules. So are PocketMine servers under the EULA restrictions? Honestly, I don't know. Will Mojang ever start cracking down on PE servers breaking the EULA? I'm not sure about that either, but right now they are not. As long as big PE servers like Lifeboat are not being punished for breaking the EULA, then smaller servers should be safe. Just know that if you decide to ignore the EULA restrictions, there may be a day where Mojang could come after you. The decision is yours to make. Whatever you decide to do, just keep morals in mind (Don't make your server completely pay to win. Mojang/Microsoft won't like that :p).
    applqpak and Jazzwhistle like this.
  8. TheDeibo
    Offline

    TheDeibo Notable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    693
    Minecraft User:
    TheDeibo
    English is my first language, BUT you keep repeating the same question in a different. And, Jazzwhistle, who do you think you are, being rude to me? Just in case you haven't noticed, I have been on this forum for Much longer than you, and am a Notable member, who knows more than you do. Do yourself a favour, read the text. Not much actually read now, and it's actually getting me annoyed. I have stated the facts, and you've ignored them. SO, Sonny-boy, the lesson is read. Reading is good for the brain, and the brain needs a decent education.
  9. TheDeibo
    Offline

    TheDeibo Notable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    693
    Minecraft User:
    TheDeibo
    Thanks :)
    applqpak likes this.
  10. Extreme_Heat
    Offline

    Extreme_Heat Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Posts:
    76
    Minecraft User:
    Extreme_Heat
    If you are seriously questioning if Mojang has legal standing here, speak to an attorney.

    It doesn't matter if PocketMine has a license agreement or not nor does it matter if you are actually consenting to an end user license agreement from Mojang when creating hosting a server.

    As long as you are using the "Minecraft" brand name or any related intellectual property whether that be assets, or copyrighted numbers, etc. Mojang can assert their rights over you. The extent of which they can are purely dependant on jurisdiction and up for a court to decide.

    Wether or not Mojang has rights over the protocol I'd say is a gray area. There is no precedent as far as I'm aware of regarding the topic. Mojang could go to the extremes and request to patent the protocol but this is highly unlikely. If this ended up in a lawsuit I don't think Mojang has much standing to assert their rights but as per the surprising outcome of Google v. Oracle in the United States I'd say that it definitely remains a possibility.

    But to state again, talk to a attorney. Posting on forums won't give you a definitive answer evidently because very few people have the legal expertise to say anything meaningful that would hold up if such a question did go to a court. I know this post was made a while back but since it still has traction and it's now once again being discussed, I'll leave this here.
    applqpak and Darunia18 like this.
  11. Jazzwhistle
    Offline

    Jazzwhistle Notable Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Posts:
    364
    Minecraft User:
    Awzaw
    If you read the thread again you'll see that I have been polite and respectful throughout, whereas you have been, and still are, talking to me as if I were an idiot. Without wanting to boast, I think most people agree that Cambridge University counts as a good education, and I have no interest in discussing this with people who don't know the answer, and get annoyed.

    Thank you @Darunia18, that is exactly what I need to know.

    If anyone is wondering why I revived this thread, I am trying to figure out what Microsoft plans for MCPE Realms, MojangAuth etc... and whether they are likely to use the MCPE EULA to squeeze out independent servers, since as darunia18 correctly points out, Mojang claims that because servers use the protocol and allow Minecraft clients to join, they are still under the EULA rules. Please read that last phrase again @TheDeibo, and swallow your pride.

    For now I pay for the server on a monthly basis, and would like to avoid paying my next year's hosting in advance if we are all going to be served take-downs at some point...
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
    applqpak and Darunia18 like this.
  12. TheDeibo
    Offline

    TheDeibo Notable Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Posts:
    693
    Minecraft User:
    TheDeibo
    Without boasting either, Im in a course that does networking, and it includes eula, licences and copyright.
    Not trying to make situations worse, but I said the answer in it's simplest of forms ( for all to understand, not focused on you ), So is it a pissibility that your brain is hard-wired to long explinations?
  13. Darunia18
    Offline

    Darunia18 Staff Member Sectional Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Posts:
    754
    Plugins:
    2
    Minecraft User:
    Darunia18
    Everything I say in this post (aside from what I state is a known fact) is going to be mostly speculation regarding the future of multiplayer Minecraft.

    Here is what we know about the plans for PE multiplayer: Mojang has made an authentication system for Minecraft clients using the C++ codebase (Pocket Edition, Windows 10 Edition, etc). Authentication is done using Xbox Live, meaning that users are required to use their Xbox Live username (which also means that username changes cost 10USD). While nothing has been officially announced yet, I believe gurun (the creator and maintainer of MiNET) has found the code within the betas regarding how to check authentication for clients and Shoghi did respond to the tweets a bit. There is still no official documentation about it yet. We also know that Mojang has been working to fix their in-house server software primarily to improve Realms, but it has been stated by different Mojang employees that they want to release the official in-house server software once it is ready for public use. This is in no way a guarantee from them, and since Shoghi did originally state that the authentication system wouldn't use Xbox Live, I'm not sure how much trust I can put into what Mojang staff says anymore.

    Here is my speculation. I believe all their work is going to go into Realms for a long time. The earliest I'd expect the official server software to release would be in maybe six months, but that's being hopeful. I expect we will have to wait years before it is released. Unless MiNET becomes more user-friendly, I don't expect there to be an easily-accessible and popular server software for Pocket Edition. We will see larger servers using MiNET, but I don't expect to see something like PocketMine come around again. PocketMine could be resurrected or a new software could show up, but right now I don't see that happening.

    Now here is my hopes for what Mojang will do, but I don't see this likely at all. I hope that this in-house server software is easily mod-able via plugins, just like Bukkit, Spigot, Sponge, PocketMine, MiNET, etc are. I'd hope there is public documentation of how to create plugins for it and it would be fairly easy to develop for because Minecraft servers have been so helpful to me and many others in learning how to program because it is easily accessible. I don't ever see this happening though because it isn't something that would generate any money for Minecraft/Mojang/Microsoft. One can always dream though.

    This is a long wall of text and I'm sorry. This really derails from the original topic, so if you want to continue this discussion more than one reply, you can message me on here or elsewhere or create another post somewhere else on the forums and I can share more of my ideas on the future of Minecraft.

    TL; DR: Authentication for PE is done using Xbox Live. The public is planned to have access to it in the future, but right now we don't. Eventually Mojang plans to release their in-house server software, but that is a long ways away.
    applqpak likes this.
  14. basprohop
    Offline

    basprohop Active Member Plugin Developer

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Posts:
    128
    Plugins:
    3
    Minecraft User:
    basprohop
    Actually they are starting to care: https://www.spigotmc.org/threads/mojang-eula-enforcement.125792/
    applqpak likes this.
  15. Extreme_Heat
    Offline

    Extreme_Heat Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Posts:
    76
    Minecraft User:
    Extreme_Heat
    Why would it matter if we are authenticating with Xbox Live? The game (or whatever) being coded in C++ is really irrelevant to servers. The code will eventually contact Mojang's servers to gain an authentication token to be sent to the server. Minecraft: Windows 10 Edition already has Xbox authentication (just not sent to the server) and we're connecting them fine.

    Unless the server has to contact authentication servers (which it does not), we shouldn't have any issue server-side. Eventually we will want to actually verify clients connecting, but all that is required is someone (officially or not) documenting the protocol. Mojang clearly does not have an issue with external servers else we would not have a way to connect to those servers at all -- further, the people at Microsoft also have made a nice tutorial on connecting to external servers.

    The only issue I see for PocketMine is the lack of maintenance. It's all about the contributors taking their time to code, fix bugs and implement new features when they come out. The state (or the future for that matter) of PocketMine should not be attributed to obscurity put in place by Mojang or Microsoft when in reality there's much more broader of an issue at hand.
    applqpak likes this.
  16. Darunia18
    Offline

    Darunia18 Staff Member Sectional Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Posts:
    754
    Plugins:
    2
    Minecraft User:
    Darunia18
    First of all, that comment was written a year ago. Second, if Mojang weren't owned by Microsoft, I doubt they'd go around policing servers. Now that they are owned by Microsoft, they can afford to pay a few people to go around and handle this stuff. Third, they have not touched any Pocket Edition servers yet.

    1. I stated the C++ versions to specify all versions running on the C++ codebase.
    2. There's a few issues with using Xbox Live over Mojang accounts, and they mostly involve the fact that in-game names must match Xbox Live usernames. The first issue is that name changes cost money ($10 last time I checked). The second issue is that Xbox Live usernames can have spaces in them. This causes issues with commands that specify certain players and possibly certain plugin data storage systems.
    3. I never said Mojang/Microsoft had any issues with 3rd party servers, nor did I say that we should blame them for PocketMine/PE multiplayer being in the state it is. The issue is that no one is contributing to PocketMine or a single server software of some kind. Those that want to contribute decide to create their own branch of PocketMine, which splits the community up even further. Everything is split up and there is not much documentation for those branches. It's just a giant mess.
    applqpak likes this.
  17. Extreme_Heat
    Offline

    Extreme_Heat Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Posts:
    76
    Minecraft User:
    Extreme_Heat
    1. Is still pretty irrelevant to mention, but OK. The authentication system uses the Xbox live SDK just like the Windows 10 Edition already does. This is more so bringing Windows 10 Edition things over to Pocket Edition.

    2. There is a fee to change gamer tags on your second change. This is done with the exact intention to defer name changes - they're not made to be normally changed. They're supposed to be unique and identify you personally, not be a changing thing. Similar to what's done on PC where we have monthly restrictions, but without the wait. Think about it like changing a website domain. I know on PE it might seem a bit foreign, but when you have authentication it's important to know exactly who is who with some level of certainty.

    The issue with spaces in names should be something reviewed by Mojang. Spaces are already usable in usernames, not just gamer tags. Maybe replace spaces with underscores (I mean, we can already do this server-side), see no issue on that regard.

    3. Yes, this is part of the point I was making. If you'll ask anyone of those people contributing to forks at not PocketMine, most certainly you will hear things like "PocketMine doesn't review PRs" or "PocketMine isn't maintained well".
  18. Darunia18
    Offline

    Darunia18 Staff Member Sectional Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Posts:
    754
    Plugins:
    2
    Minecraft User:
    Darunia18
    1. I don't think you're understanding what I mean about this. There are two version of Minecraft: the Java version and the C++ version. I was specifying the C++ version.
    2. But the first change is free because they give you a random username first. I understand why they do name changes, and personally I wasn't too fond of name changes being added to the Java version, but I don't like that it is inconsistent between the two versions.

    I talked to Shoghi about the underscore idea a long time ago, but issue with that is that usernames can have both underscores and spaces. What would a server do when two players are logged into the server, one named "Joe Smith" and the other "Joe_Smith"? And this issue is not going to just be the multiplayer server community's problem anymore: Microsoft has stated that they plan on adding commands to the C++ version very soon. This is definitely something that they will have to find a fix for soon, which does make me feel a bit better knowing that it's not just a community issue.

    3. I understand that PocketMine doesn't approve of a lot of pull requests, but people should focus on one branch of PocketMine rather than developing multiple ones with differing APIs.
  19. Extreme_Heat
    Offline

    Extreme_Heat Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Posts:
    76
    Minecraft User:
    Extreme_Heat
    Since they use completely different authentication systems, it's natural that there will be inconsistencies. For PC, Realms is hosted by Amazon for a fee that Mojang has to pay -- Pocket Edition takes advantage of Microsoft's Xbox Live servers where a 3rd party is not needed to host servers. This is evidently a business decision that was made. Since the servers are hosted on Xbox Live, you will obviously need an Xbox account to use those servers unless Microsoft goes out of their way to cross-honor Mojang authentication... Would you rather use a Mojang account to sign into the game and then have to use an Xbox account to use Realms? The other option here is to allow Microsoft accounts to be linked to Mojang accounts, similar to how it's done for Twitch. This is 'do-able' but there are obvious issues that this can create.

    2. Once Xbox Live authentication is in place all clients will have to use Xbox gamertags, thus the underscore issue won't be a conflicting problem. And I'm sure that we want to move away from using usernames as unique identifiers for players at some point (with the exception of commands, of course).

    Edit: Forgot to address point 3 :) - I agree completely, but "focusing" on PocketMine requires some level of support from people with access to the repo. Especially with the absence of a lot of the core PocketMine team, Intyre is pretty much the only active manager of the PM repositories.

    Full disclosure: I've worked with the Mojang Realms team in the past and also have close contact with people working not only on Realms but on other things at Mojang. I think this is worth mentioning.

    I'll probably stop it here, as I think this has drifted too far away from the original topic.
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
    Jazzwhistle and Darunia18 like this.

Share This Page

Advertisement